Re: Star Wars The Force Awakens discussion (SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY)

by TheWamts Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:13 pm

The way my friend puts it, and I agree is that "It's a great movie, but a terrible Star Wars."

Rey is a great Mary Sue though ^^

by **Old_Man_Tai** Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:29 pm

Rian Johnson huh?

Looper sucked.

But Ozymandias and Fly are my favorite Breaking Bad episodes, so it could be good.

by LunarWolf Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:40 pm

Briant Cranstons reading of Ozymandias is soooooo good.

by Harrier Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:28 am

There is at least an explanation why the spaceships are still the same, upgrading. Modern military doesn´t mothball most of their designs, they upgrade them until not much more than the chassis is left. Just take a look at the M109 tank, it was designed in the 1950s and is still in use today with NATO forces. And maybe the First Order isw cheap with their spacecraft to be able to fund the megaweapon?^^

A scrapyard like Millenium Falcon could not outrun the Interceptors anyway, but that did not matter as it just had to make the jump. People already said that it was a superior design despite it´s early construction and could keep up with modern spaceships of a comparable size.

A point I majorly agree with is the strange behaviour of the Jedi in all of the movies. Ok, they lost the war and most Jedi were betrayed and killed, and that of course makes a big dent in resolve. But a bent that last so long is stupid. From the first movies and how Obi Wan was betrayed, you can except to have Obi Wan fight back by building a new order or fighting against the empire, but he does not. Anakin survied their battle, there is no reason to be any more guiltstruck than for example Yoda. Yoda has at least the excuse that he is old, but he could also have sought and trained young Jedi too. If the Sith could make a comeback, why not the Jedi? The empire is obviously incapable of totally dominating it´s whole sphere of influence with its armies alone, and I am pretty sure that Vader and the Emperor would have better things to do than personally fly over every backwater world to find leftover or new force users.

by **Serpon** Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:33 am

Actually, the spaceships are better. For example, the new tie fighters have shields and life support while the new star destroyers are even bigger. The new X-wings can go faster and have better shields than their older counterparts.

by **Old_Man_Tai** Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:07 am

Prequel Trilogy: Qui Gonn gets told "No, you can't train the creepy kid" and pouts the rest of the movie, then guilt trips Obi Wan into training the kid. Said kid becomes Anakin Skywalker, who ends up becoming a whiny pouty bitch EVERY SINGLE TIME he doesn't get his way, to the point of helping murder children because the Jedi didn't treat him the way he felt he deserved.

Original Trilogy: Order 66 kills all the Jedi, Empire takes over, Obi Wan goes and sits in a desert, and Yoda sits in a swap, for decades.

New Trilogy: Luke loses his Jedi Order to Ben Solo, takes his ball, goes to Ireland and stares at the ocean for 30 years.

What, in the fuck, makes the Jedi good guys? Hell, before Luke changed it in the novels, the old Jedi Code encouraged all the Jedi, basically Battle Mages, to be sociopaths with no emotions or feelings.

by **Kelsea** Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:08 am

Old_Man_Tai wrote:So the prequels weren't all that great, but at least they EXPLAINED everything that was going on. You may not have LIKED what was happening with the politics stuff, but because you saw it, you understood what was going on.

Looking only at The Phantom Menace (seems The Force Awakens is only the first in its trilogy also)... Its not just "that I didn't like what was happening"... For me, it has flawed political and general logic, as well as character decisions/reasoning... As a result, I honestly don't think my understanding of the phantom menace was better then my understanding of The Force Awakens upon the first few viewings

I will say that the first few times I watched The Phantom Menace I probably focus more on lightsabers or pod racers then anything else (And thus I did enjoy it)... But even then, when I started focusing on the storyline and politics, my understanding of the film actually decreased!

But in general, I believe that every single Star Wars film could be nitpicked... Its a case of how obnoxious and unignorable the issues are

by wrestleryu Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:06 am

An important aspect that we should not forget is that Episode VII takes its start from a saga that was finished, and finished for good: bad guys dead, everybody in the faraway galaxy celebrating, and balance in the Force restored. End of the story right?

Keeping this in mind, I think that anyone expecting a perfect and detailed coherence in linking the whole new situation to the old story will be greatly disappointed. My personal attitude towards this new movie was to watch at it as the start of an entirely new saga rather than worrying my mind with fan issues, and see if it was enterteining and well done enough for me. I'd say it was fairly good so I decided to watch it twice.

In my opinion the prequel saga was not even in the same department with Episode VII in terms of intensity, technical accuracy, rhythm, photography, and psychological insight of the characters too. I mean an assaulter dies in Finn's arms and he instantly decides to quit? Not at all. You immediately guess that he had doubts from the start. Maybe he had been pondering about himself and the First Order for months? We don't know, but some contents don't really need a direct explaination, they can and maybe should be left to everyone's imagination. This is Cinema, not Literature, and you can't always suspend the action for all the time necessary to explain something. Not to mention that this is a first episode and, like Kelsea correctly said earlier in the discussion, we knew about nothing of Darth Vader in the original movie, but we didn't mind because we were not Star Wars fans ready to complain about it (yet XD)

Maybe the prequels were better in terms of explainations of the story and the background story but I don't think it makes the difference in a movie, unless the story would risk to be confused and deranged, and I don't believe this is the case. Anyway, I guess we will need to wait for entire new trilogy to know how good or bad it is in terms of explainations and fanservice (not THAT kind of fanservice you know ;p).

by **Kelsea** Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:43 pm

No the prequels really weren't better at explaining their story -_-
When it comes to the storyline explanation, The force awakens failings are as follows:

-No explanation as to how the First Order suddenly are able to build weapons of mass destruction greater than the empire
-No explanation why the republic and resistance two separate entities? And why is Leia with the resistance and not the republic
-Pretty much everything about starkiller base unfortunately -_-
-No explanation where Snoke came from? (although to be honest I feel this is good mystery building rather than a failing... As long as they make something of it in the next films)

The Force Awakens did not try to explain these few things, whereas the prequels *tried* to explain most things but because of a poorly planned story line, it ended up with countless contradiction and discrepancies that actually makes it more difficult to follow (without continuously questioning motives and logic)

A TLDR section for my response to Tai's comments in the spoiler:

Spoiler:

by TheWamts Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 pm

I feel that the problem is that while George Lucas wanted a great big mythos of his universe, Disney's more content with just pumping out a bunch of movies.

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