Star Wars The Force Awakens discussion (SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY)

I agree with you, Tai. I also cannot say that Anakin was more than a spoiled emo brat most of the time. If I had known what Anakin really did to become Darth Vader, I would have probably seen the intention of Luke to save him in another light. Yoda already sensed that Anakin was dangerous in Episode I and turned Qui Gon Jin down when he asked to train him. After he died Obi Wan probably insisted on taking Anakin as an apprentice, and the council agreed because Qui Gon would have wanted too and they had pressing matters to solve with the Trade federation. And Obi Wan and Padme were both a good influence for Anakin, but it simply was not enough to let him stay on the light side.

But contrary to Ren, I can understand what pushed him over the edge and why Palapatine´s schemes fell on fetid soil. That surely does not make it justified. From Ren, I only know that he was trained by Luke and for some reason betrayed him. I am pretty sure that Luke was not an abusive teacher as he was trained by Obi Wan and Yoda, both gentle and compassionate Jedi, and it also does not fit Luke very well. The only thing that sounds reasonable here to me seems to be envy, although it is prurely speculative of course. Maybe Ren sensed that he can never reach Luke when he was trained by him, which gave Snoke a grip to reach out to him.

Harrier wrote:From Ren, I only know that he was trained by Luke and for some reason betrayed him.

At the time of A New Hope's release, all you knew from Darth Vader was that he was trained by Obi Wan and for some reason betrayed him... ¬.¬ You actually know more about Ren's past then you do about Darth Vader from their first film

Old_Man_Tai wrote:Anakin was not a nice guy, Anakin was NOT a good guy. I'm sorry but it takes a lot more than just "Hey, I'll save your wife's life maybe" to have a guy do what he did.

I don't see this as Anakin not being a nice guy... I see this as bad writing >.< ... it DOES take more then someone saying they might be able to save your wife to make someone go on a remorseless killing spree

Don't get me wrong, Anakin WAS definitely a bad egg and they did good job of putting the hints and foreshadowing in there... but I just didn't like the way they portrayed his turn to the dark side (specifically what happens after Mace Windu's death) because Anakin goes from suspecting the Jedi aren't good, to believing they need to all be exterminated (including innocent youths) with little rhyme, reason or connection to his main drive (saving Padme)

Kelsea wrote:

Harrier wrote:From Ren, I only know that he was trained by Luke and for some reason betrayed him.

At the time of A New Hope's release, all you knew from Darth Vader was that he was trained by Obi Wan and for some reason betrayed him... ¬.¬ You actually know more about Ren's past then you do about Darth Vader from their first film

But wasn´t this because Lucas was shy for cash or something and could not release all of his movies, so he choose the spiciest ones? With Episode VII, it just feels unnecessary. The trend for prequels, which I find quite disturbing to be honest, just kicked in later when autors, directors and regisseurs had to admit that they were finally bancrupt for ideas after 90+ years of film making.

But the Darth Vader character still worked despite not finding out his origins later... Sometimes its better to see a villain first and find out what made them evil later

The films are suppose to be seen out of order anyway, otherwise if you watch it chronologically all the story line revelations in the originals are ruined ahead of time by the prequels

I personally find that Kylo Ren symbolically represents one of the many "extreme" fans of the saga, being a fanatic admirer of granpa Darth Vader enough to decide to wear a similar mask even without needing it.
The movie is full of little rewards to the fans here and there, also having Rey herself behave like a fan in different occasions (Luke Skywalker??? Are you THAT Han Solo??? Is this the same Millennium Falcon that bla bla bla..?).
Abrams and Disney inc knew well that the eyes of millions fans of the saga would be upon them, so it is possible that they decided to play and humor a lil bit about the matter

That said, of course we don't know much about Ren so far. Honestly, having his true identity and the conflict within his heart revealed so fast and easily during the 1st movie was more than enough I think. But more importantly, it suggests that we are probably going to know a lot more about the character in the next episodes.

As for the movie itself, I found it very enjoyable overall: liked the dialogues, the acting, very good rhythm, excellent photography imo. Masterpiece? Nopes, this is a well done blockbuster.
And I agree with Kelsea, the new characters were introduced very well, letting us getting familiar with their personality while using the old cast very nicely to have the new and old elements integrate. Exception Leia maybe: she gave me a strange feeling, like she was playing herself playing Leia for the fans in some Star Wars convention, but maybe it's just me.

About the many similarities with "A new hope", I don't believe they were due to mere lack of imagination. I rather think that making it look like a remake disguised as a sequel was actually a deliberate choice, aimed at paying a homage to the 1st Star Wars: a sign of respect, so to speak, but also an attempt to establish an emotional connection with the old saga.
Of course, such choice came with its cost, like with the final assault to the "new" ultimate weapon, which had no chances to be very climatic, considering that the whole world had seen the original one already.
But was the intent of the movie to be unexpected and surprising after all? I don't think so; the intent was to launch a new Star Wars saga, one that would have very deep roots in the old one this time (unlike the prequels), one that the fans could consider epic and worthy to have a place in their own imaginary "Star Wars tradition". And that is perfectly represented in the last scene: Luke turning around, older and with a beard that makes him look like such an expected "new Obi Wan".  We all could predict that this episode was going to end with this scene right? BUT, the sensation of epicness and the wish to see the next movie was still looming over the spectator in the cinema, and it bursted out into a collective applause in the end. Success? Yes I think so. A couple of disappointing details here and there? Of course, but nothing serious

And finally, possible explaination of Rey's incredible strenght in the Force: she is a descendant of Yoda

I suspect Smoke could be one of the former sith from the old republic who somewhat used an ancient sith ritual to extend his lifespan which was what happens in the KOTR mmo emperor. They used the idea of how Ezira from Rebels was able to force leap, throw agent Calus, and sense that cliff during his tie fighter flight with Zebb which could explain how Rey learned so fast. The movie was awesome, but why the heck didn't they use the Tie interceptors because their wing designed was what allowed them to fight well in atmosphere conditions where the regular fighters lost a lot of manuverablity when they fought on a planet.

They better be careful the scene where Rey had the visions when she touched Lukes lightsaber really borderlines being stolen from the book The Krytos Trap by Michael A. Stackpole where he had Corrin Horn pick up a lightsaber he seen visions of and just be able to use it as good as Finn and Rey did to escape the super stardestroyer that he was imprisoned on. He then finds out the Lightsaber belonged to his grandfather then tries to use the force influencing power and fails miserably probably because he wasn't that sensitive as Rey was, but she got it to work.

I think the next movies will be leaning closer to old republic empire because how else could you explain Smoke's presence which is also another dangerous reference to extended universe character Exar Kunn who survived an orbital bombardment to later corrupt one of Lukes students just like Smoke did with Ren.

I think the movie was fine. It was a good movie. Do I feel it was a great movie? No, not really. There's enough negative in there to bring it down to the good tier. I get the intentions overall. They wanted to play it safe with this movie after the reception the prequels. got. Trying to do something different was a risk, so better to mostly copy episode 4 while adding their own little twists here and there. It does its job, tapping into the nostalgia for the original trilogy of movies.

It mostly works. It's a fun movie. The new cast is mostly good. Finn and Rey are solid new additions. They mostly kept Rey from being too perfect with more her emotional weaknesses and that long attachment to going back 'home' because she had to keep waiting for someone she knew wasn't coming back. Finn was a pretty fun and flawed character. The stormtrooper who fought back against the indoctrination of the First Order and tried to get away. Although I'm not sure where they will go with his character. Doesn't seem like he's force sensitive, isn't much of a pilot or gifted with technology. He was useful here because of important knowledge, but his information is probably at its limit of usefulness.

Kylo Ren....yeah I didn't care much for this character. I do get that they can go on a villain's journey here and build him up through these movies. That's fine. But in this movie I didn't like the character. Wasn't too bad for the first part of the movie, but regardless of that being the intention...when the mask comes off I just stop caring. Just a spoiled brat with an inferiority complex. Just not interesting. Plus left wondering how powerful this guy has the potential to really be. Can he even stand up to Rey after she gets training. His training can be finished and that's nice, but does he have the ceiling to match up?

Plus....the stuff just left unexplained did get frustrating. Was it really going to take more than a few minutes to explain who the heck the First Order are? Or why there is a Resistance considering they won the fight? Did they even need to make a resistance outside of the need to copy episode 4? Why couldn't they just be the army of the new republic?

Still a good movie. An entertaining film and it seems like they are moving in a solid direction. But the issue is where they go from here. Can they do something original and do it well? Can they get by without copying the original trilogy? I sure hope so. I want Star Wars to just come to life and be fun to watch.

I think the reason for the resistance was there may of been a semi cease fire between the remaining groups that now make up the empire and the resistance was the republics way of still fighting back from the shadows while still looking good in the face of the people. Rogue Squadron broke off from the new republic in the book The Bacta War so a resistance force does make sense it is just going have to be seen how the resistance merges back with the republic after their work is done.

Otherwise They did a wonderful job in the movie which the actor playing Finn actually said on a talk show he already signed up to be part of Episode 8, but I hope the movie anthology coming out next December is good being it is a fill in for stuff that wasn't shown in episode 4.

So I just saw it for a third time last night, and I gotta say...this movie REALLY does NOT hold up well to repeated viewings and once you take off the nostalgia goggles, oh so many flaws become noticeable.


So the prequels weren't all that great, but at least they EXPLAINED everything that was going on. You may not have LIKED what was happening with the politics stuff, but because you saw it, you understood what was going on.

But because everybody bitched about all the politics in the last trilogy, so they overcorrect here by removing ALL of it, leaving a fuckton of questions that will probably never be resolved.

So the First Order, which is supposedly living off the leftovers of the Empire, somehow has the cash for a giant laser planet, but not to improve the TIE Fighters, while the Resistance, despite being backed by the Republic, can't afford to improve the X-Wings or build any new ships? Fuck that. We come up with multiple new aircraft every decade! Yet another decision made strictly for nostalgia, because 40-50 year old nerds would super bitch if not catered to.


So what the fuck was with R2-D2? No, I don't buy the whole "Luke wanted him to shut down for 30 years, till his "daughter" was found, till his saber or whatever" bullshit theories. My theory is that R2-D2 spent too much time around Jedi and took after their methods, which means when met with a setback, he has to become a pouty bitch.

Why is everyone looking for Luke Skywalker anyway? What importance does he have? The dude's pupil turned on him and killed his new padawan learners, and as a result...Luke went off to go pout in Ireland, and decided the let the rest of the universe clean up his messes for him, because the jedi have proven that they become pouty little bitches when anything bad happens. OUR HERO!

Whats the point of Han Solo taking people to a hidden fortress/safe area if their going to be spotted and ratted out to both sides the moment they arrive?

The Hell is with Finn? Here's his character arc:

"A Stormtrooper died in my arms, now I'm scared of death and killing, I don't want to be a killer."

*Minutes later*

"WOO! KILL THEM ALL AND LET THE FORCE SORT THEM OUT!"


"I'm scared of the First Order and want to do nothing more than run the fuck away cause I'm a bitch."

*Minutes later*


"WOO! FIGHTING AND KILLING STORMTROOPERS AND INVADING A GIANT DEATH WORLD TO SAVE A GIRL I'VE ONLY KNOWN FOR TWO DAYS TOPS!

Why is Han Solo willing to make a girl he literally JUST MET co-pilot of the Falcon?

How did Rey learn to speak Droid? Who taught her? She grew up alone on that desert planet struggling to survive, did she just teach herself how to translate fucking beeps and bloops?

So your telling me that, on this DESERT PLANET, the payment for scrap and salvage is DEHYTRATED FOOD THAT REQUIRES WATER TO EAT!? WHERE THE FUCK DOES THE WATER COME FROM!?

Why does nobody make any attempt to hide or disguise BB? They couldn't paint his orange spots blue or anything?

How can you have a weapon that drains out the power of a sun and use it more than once? Does the sun just regain its stolen energy? Why didn't it fade out or blow up? I highly doubt that's accurate science. They used the ENTIRE SUN for their last, failed, attack...WHAT THE FUCK WOULD THEY HAVE DONE WITH THE SUPER WEAPON THEN!?

WHO THE FUCK IS SNOKE!? SERIOUSLY! WE ARE GIVEN 0 INFORMATION ON HIM.

This is the problem with this movie, there's so much nostalgia stuff thrown in to please the nerds that it hurts its own story, and the story it does have suffers and doesn't make much sense, because they couldn't EXPLAIN any of it, because people bitched that the prequels, which took time to explain things, were too long.

Apparently there will be no extended edition of this film, which is a shame, because this film REALLY could have used an extra 20 minutes just to explain some things, which would have made it a more solid film.

Also, I gotta say, a lot of people and critics have complained about the scenes in Han's smuggling ship with the gangs and the tentacle whatever creatures because it had nothing to do with the story. Fuck those people. That scene is golden. Sure, its padding/filler, but its NEEDED filler, otherwise the entire movie would just be exposition, foreshadowing, and nostalgia. Which, come to think of it, would just make it Avengers: Age of Ultron with lightsabers.

JJ Abrams already fucked up Star Trek, (thank god he'll never be allowed to touch my precious Next Generation at least) and unless he (and Disney's decision makers that run things) shapes the fuck up, we're going to have a SECOND shitty trilogy.

Old_Man_Tai wrote:JJ Abrams already fucked up Star Trek, (thank god he'll never be allowed to touch my precious Next Generation at least) and unless he (and Disney's decision makers that run things) shapes the fuck up, we're going to have a SECOND shitty trilogy.

In which case, you'll be glad to know that Abrams isnt directing for VIII, this guy is: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0426059/?ref_=tt_ov_dr