Star Wars The Force Awakens discussion (SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY)

I don´t think she is her mother, but she could indeed very well be her aunt. A friend of mine suggested, half serious and half in fun, that she could be a child of Obi Wan. I don´t know if he saw himself still as a Jedi after nearly all of the other Jedi were killed. Count Dooku was a Jedi once too and forsake his oath, so you can obviously leave the order and keep your powers.
I don´t put much credibility in that personally, at least he still dressed and behaved like a Jedi in the movie and it would also be a kick in the balls of episode III as Anakins love to Padme is also a cause for his defection and Obi Wan repeatedly calls him out for that. But at least it made me think about it.

I've heard the idea that she could be Obi Wan's child, or that she could be the granddaughter... Timeline wise she can't be the direct daughter cause over 30 years has passed since his death, some necrophilia would have needed to go down for it to be possible.

Granddaughter is possible... The only link to Kenobi at the moment is the fact that in Rey's vision she hears Obi Wan call out her name... People speculate that Rey got her name from the rebel fighter pilot helmet she has on Jakku and that its not her real name... Either Obi Wan was calling to Rey as a ghost (cause he was dead before her birth) or Obi Wan was calling to the person who the helmet actually belonged to (and somehow that worked its way into the vision without being linked to Luke's lightsaber).

I personally don't buy it though

Here is a crazy idea, in fact, it's so crazy it just might work. What if she is the Emperor Great Grand Daughter? Now wouldn't that be a twist?

Kanan!

I do like that this is the Neo New Hope movie. I didn't like how being the Neo New Hope also made every plot point quite predictable from the get-go, but hey, it was a good movie nonetheless.

I do wish they'd had time to at least develop the Republic a little bit though, instead of "damn, there goes 5 planets, but no one seems fazed at all", it'd be something suspenseful and whatnot. But running away from the 2000 Senate scenes of the prequels was probably for the better.

I really liked the movie, but I'm left with questions:


Why was nothing actually explained or really developed? Like, was there 40 minutes of shit they cut out of the movie that explains everything and its being saved for the Extended Edition?


Where did the First Order come from? Who funds them? What rank does Kylo Ren hold that equals him to the main general? How the fuck did they build a giant planet/weapon AROUND A SUN without FUCKING ANYBODY NOTICING!?


Phasa was cool for the 4 minutes she was in the movie. If she's dead, then why waster her like that, and if she's alive, why the fuck didn't they kill her?


What the hell is Maz Kanata's connection with anybody?


So Han Solo is "like a father" to Rey already, when she's only known him for like, a few hours at most? As far as we've seen, she's known Finn for like, a day, and he's willing to risk his entire life for her? From what we were shown, it just doesn't make much sense.


So, Finn decides, in his first battle ever, he can't kill. He doesn't like killing, he doesn't like death. Seeing a Storm Trooper die in front of him clearly freaks him out...until 10 minutes later, when he's yelling "WOO!" while blasting storm troopers and jamming light sabers in their chest.


Who leads and funds the Resistance? This isn't nit picking, Hell, the sadly non-canon Force Unleashed game answered who funded the original resistance.

Why does Luke (and for that matter, EVERY JEDI THAT FUCKS UP) decide that the best decision for them to do after fucking up IS TO VANISH AND LEAVE EVERYBODY ELSE TO DEAL WITH THEIR SHIT!?

No seriously, that one bugs me. Luke goes "Welp, I fucked up...Eh, fuck em, I'ma stare at the ocean for 30 years, cause Jedi"

WHO THE FUCK IS SUPREME LEADER SNOKE AND WHY SHOULD WE GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HIM!?

EXPLAIN MOVIE, EXPLAIN!!!!!!


That being said, I really did enjoy like 85 percent of the film. I loved the lightsaber fight at the end. Sure, Kylo Ren wasn't that impressive in the battle, but when you factor in that 1. Most of his scenes make more sense if you don't assume he's at the Sith equal to a Master or a Knight, but a Padawan, still in his early phase. (After all, we dunno how far his training with Luke went, how long Luke's been gone, and what his training is with Snoke) 2. Since killing the other force sensitives, how many chances has he had to do saber duels? I doubt any.

Also, after the last few years of seeing just a ton of flips, near misses, and One Hit KO battles, it was cool to see characters fight in a way that was more raw, more brutal, and to see a characters taking multiple hits from the weapons.

The Padawan thing is just a theory, but it makes sense, given his emotional outbursts, unrefined saber skills, and apparent youth.

I really liked Kylo Ren actually. His having a Vader Complex is interesting, since he tries to mimic Vader, but with his own personality and style that sometimes works against him. I loved the temper tantrums.

My only gripe against him was, once the helmet was off, he was just too much of a pretty boy to take seriously. He could have at least cut his damn hair. I did like the longsword lightsaber though.

Rey was fun, though I hope they don't just rehash more stuff and have her be Luke's daughter or Leia and Han's secret daughter or something.

Finn had some good comedy, but his character just...didn't work as well for me. The whole "I don't want to kill...but I'll kill the fuck outta stormtroopers and joke about crushing Phasa in a trash compactor with no issue" thing was off putting and it was just hard to take him seriously as a major character.


BB-8 was just the most adorable thing in the world and if he doesn't become more popular and beloved than the HIGHLY overrated R2-D2, then there is no good in this world.

The comedy in general was good and worked well.

Stuff like the reveal of Ren and the Starkiller thing and all that wasn't BAD, but really feels like it should have been saved for the second film I think.

Killing Han Solo was a brilliant move. It wasn't some "oh know, he killed the guy who wasn't important or we didn't care about that much" like other films. They took a major character, both from the last trilogy and this movie, and killed him off for good. That takes balls. Hell, even Marvel Studios hasn't had the balls to actually kill off a character yet, and Star Wars just killed off its most popular character.

Other old timers, consider this as your notice being served, no matter your role, you are not untouchable. I fully expect Luke and Chewie to bite it one way or another before this trilogy ends.

The only problem I see with the Padawan theory is that he is around 30 years old already, so his potential for greatness would be vastly limited and his speech to the helmet of Vader would be empty in so far that he will never be able to defeat Luke in a fair fight like Vader managed to do once. I am pretty sure that Anakin in episode II could easily defeat him, not to speak of Padawan Obi Wan.

It would be unreasonable for Snoke to keep him weak all the time with various factions hunting for them. Snoke is a powerful force user himself and defense is not the major suit of dark jedi in general I think, but he should have trained him as far as he can easily defeat an untrained lightsword user like Finn. He did defeat him, but that was far from a piece of art. And he was not only defeated by Rey, he was outclassed despite her having zero or just slumbering experience with the lightsword. Of course he will be improved in the next movies as Snoke already said that, but that is still strange too me.

With the murder of his own father, Ben basically was made Vader light. I found that anticimatic at it´s best, and not only because I liked Han Solo. Anakin had various, understandable reasons for his defection:
a) The emperor continually seduced him with convincing arguments and orchestrated his near death for the final blow with Mace Windu
b) He loved Padme and to be a Jedi. Both things are not possible together.
c) The death of his mother
d) The council of Jedi continually shooting down his ideas and wishes

Having only watched Episode 7, I think Ben is just a fathe murdering emo with a hero and a father´s complex. Maybe it will be explained better in the next movie, but right now, nothing about him screams badass. He has neither the rage induced resolve of Anakin nor the calm silent hero type of Luke or Obi Wan and at the very least the cool, calculated style of Vader. I don´t know if I will be able to sympathize with Ben or just take him serious in the next movie.

I had no issue with the killing of Solo, but I felt like it should have been saved for the second film. I felt that way about a lot of things in the movie. It felt like they tried to cram a trilogy's worth of movie into one movie when it needed to slow down a lil.

Hans death felt more cheap and rushed than impactful. If they had built up the relationship with an encounter or two first, or really built on Kylo Ren a bit more in general, then I think it would have been more beneficial.

I liked the movie overall, but it definitely had some issues in my mind and a lot of it was that the things that were good, felt rushed for the sake of making it a trilogy that wasn't as awful as episodes 1-3. Like, we have to make sure that there is nothing unnecessary in it to the point where we trim well past the fat and start shaving off a bit of the succulent meat.

Well we got to see Anakin's turn across 2 movies... Before the prequels we had no idea why Darth Vader turned evil. I get a worrying feeling Disney will milk Star Wars as much as possible... So Kylo's turn won't be explained in the main trilogy but rather in a spin off film when they delve more into the origins of the Knights of Ren.

Snoke might have kept Kylo Ren weak because he was still close to being turned back to the light. He wanted him to take a further step into the darkness before training him further... I explain Rey's victory against Kylo by the fact that he had already had a fight with Finn, been shot by Chewbecca and taken two sharp cuts from lightsabers from both Rey and Finn. Until Rey started to focus the force he was bossing the battle, he was only outclassed in the final section of the fight.


Harrison Ford wanted Han to die ever since Empire Strikes Back... He probably said that he'd only come back for the film if they killed him off in the first installment

Old_Man_Tai wrote:Where did the First Order come from? Who funds them? What rank does Kylo Ren hold that equals him to the main general? How the fuck did they build a giant planet/weapon AROUND A SUN without FUCKING ANYBODY NOTICING!?

The First Order comes from the remnants of the Empire that was pushed into the outer rim and Kylo Ren appears to a similar level that Lord Vader was... they do a bad job of explaining all of these things within the boundaries of the film. Starkiller base wasn't built around a sun, they hollowed out an ice place and then built technology that could harness and contain a sun approximately 100 times the planets size within it... Simples

I don't really like Starkiller base, its how they were able to create it let alone with the Republic on their back eludes me... And they built it in such a way that the resistances could take it down with less planning then with both the previous Death Stars... As I said before, I don't believe it needed to be in this film. An improved Super Star Destroyer would have sufficed and been more fitting

Old_Man_Tai wrote:So Han Solo is "like a father" to Rey already, when she's only known him for like, a few hours at most? As far as we've seen, she's known Finn for like, a day, and he's willing to risk his entire life for her? From what we were shown, it just doesn't make much sense.

This was definitely my first major gripe with the film, but I've kinda dismissed it now... In A New Hope, Luke was willing to go on a crazy ill planned rescue mission to save a girl he had only seen in a holo-projection... And Han Solo was willing to come back against the Death Star (something he had previously described as suicide) with no promise of financial gain, for people he had only been with for a few days. Its just one of those things...

Old_Man_Tai wrote:WHO THE FUCK IS SUPREME LEADER SNOKE AND WHY SHOULD WE GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HIM!?

Old_Man_Tai wrote:Phasa was cool for the 4 minutes she was in the movie. If she's dead, then why waster her like that, and if she's alive, why the fuck didn't they kill her?

I think if these characters got bigger parts, the film might have been too cluttered... I am sure Phasma was given a cameo here only so that in later films it wouldn't be like they just randomly threw her in there (Like Count Dooku)...

The average viewer shouldn't really care about Snoke cause hints about who he might be is really subtle or requires external reading. They are basically cock teasing Star Wars fans with the prospect that he could be Darth Plagueis (the sith lord that trained and was supposedly killed by Sidious/Palpatine, as described in a discussion between Palpatine and Anakin in ep. III...)

Harrier wrote: Anakin had various, understandable reasons for his defection:
a) The emperor continually seduced him with convincing arguments and orchestrated his near death for the final blow with Mace Windu
b) He loved Padme and to be a Jedi. Both things are not possible together.
c) The death of his mother
d) The council of Jedi continually shooting down his ideas and wishes

This was going to be a MUCH longer post, but I'm tired.


Basically, at least half of Anakin turning to the dark side can be blamed on The Jedi Coucil of its time being utterly stupid morons who turned Anakin into a spoiled little sociopath of a prince who could never understand the feelings of others and threw giant temper tantrums when he didn't get his way.


The other half is all Anakin, for being a whiny and egotistical little bitch who thinks he deserves things just because he wants them, and that having power means he should be able to do as he pleases, while being too goddamn stupid to realize he's being played like a fiddle.

"Ooohhh Nooo, the wise and powerful Council of Jedi Masters won't make me a Master just cause I said I want it and my friend The Chancellor ordered them to put me on the Council! They must be scared of me!"

Besides, Anakin was not a nice guy, Anakin was NOT a good guy. I'm sorry but it takes a lot more than just "Hey, I'll save your wife's life maybe" to have a guy do what he did. When your just CASUALLY KILLING INNOCENT YOUNGLINGS with no justification other than "Well, they tried to kill this Sith Lord even though I didn't want them too, SO THEY ALL MUST BE EVIL AND DESERVE DEATH." then you're a seriously fucked up and evil dude, period, and you have something fucked up in your head. Anakin was a Sith long before Palpatine got to him in my opinion.