Poll regarding Kayfabe rules of hentai in non-hentai matches.

So, one of the various different things we are looking to bring to the board soon, is an official list of "In-World Rules", to help with world building and such and just make clear what the in-story rules of the Friction and Tension leagues are.

One thing I've noticed that people seem to handle differently, is the idea of using hentai, as in fucking, groping, stimulation, anything actually involving touching privates and beyond just flirting/kissing/rubbing in non-hentai matches. Some seem to feel it shouldn't be considered a legal tactic, others seem to have no issue with it.

So I figure, while I'm still in the phase of crafting this in-story rule book, I'd see what the board thought.

I voted for illegal but I am highly split in my decision as I do have a character that flirts that line in normal non hetai matches. A hard choice.

While Hentai obviously is and always will be an essential part of the dna of AFW, I find a lot of value in the fact that it doesn't have to be involved in all matches/storylines. For example I have a few characters that I would not want to have in Hentai matches, or facing hentai moves, so if Hentai was allowed in all matches, I would basically have to retire those characters.

Edit: Just read Yori's reply a couple of posts down, which says much better pretty much everything that I'm trying to say here.

I voted for legal and honestly didn't feel like there need to be a vote. If someone doesn't want to lewd things in a non match, then just say so.

My Stance is this:

There is nothing to be gained by making hentai an "always legal" tactic that benefits the in universe aspects of AFW as a whole. It presents issues with justification for characters who do not partake in hentai stuff, be it due to player discretion or in character reasoning. You also run into issues with meta justifications. Such as why someone known to use hentai tactics suddenly doesn't use them in a match because the players have decided not to involve hentai stuff. Well what is the in character reasoning for that now? Is there any? While I have plenty of characters who actively take part in things that include lewd roleplay, I do have several characters who I in no way want to be involved with that side of AFW and its inclusion being made the norm really puts into question why they even are in AFW as a league.

Ever since I first joined I have always treated it as an illegal maneuver within standard matches akin to things like illegal chokes, hair pulling, low blows, etc. This adds weight when it is used outside of its normal setting, and gives it a certain sense of danger for both wrestlers involved. It being made legal, to me, takes away from a toolkit of subtle or seductive characters that try to sneak these things in on a character that wouldn't be expecting it just like any other form of cheating. It is incredibly easy for someone to include hentai in a match with a small note denoting its use is legal in a particular match or the match itself is a no holds barred rule set. I know this, because its exactly what I have always done myself and have faced a total of zero negative feedback with my roleplay partners.

In a broad summary, making everything okay and legal in universe is boring and cuts off interesting roleplay potential. This applies to more than just hentai, mind you, but I am trying to keep on topic.

JUST TO BE CLEAR:

This poll changes NOTHING about how you can rp or do matches with people. If you have a character who doesn't want to do hentai, they won't be forced into anything.

As always, OOC discussions will handle all of that.

Literally all this does is give us an "official" rule for world building, and determine if you have to start putting "hentai allowed/not allowed" at the start of matches.

A while back we had a thing called a Semi-hentai match. Which was just a normal match with hentai stuff allowed iirc?

So I don't see a problem with making it illegal. If people want a match where that should be okay in the match they can just do that, label it as a Semi-Hentai match. or Hentai-Allowed. As long as it doesn't impose anything...for people rping and doing whatever they want.

Old_Man_Tai wrote:JUST TO BE CLEAR:

This poll changes NOTHING about how you can rp or do matches with people. If you have a character who doesn't want to do hentai, they won't be forced into anything.

As always, OOC discussions will handle all of that.

Literally all this does is give us an "official" rule for world building, and determine if you have to start putting "hentai allowed/not allowed" at the start of matches.

I want to start off saying I very much support a revisiting of AFW lore and world building and have always been someone who tries to help add onto that sort of thing, be it by advocating for things to be added to the site or just actively trying to connect threads together in a meaningful way.

Regardless of the intentions of the poll or an upcoming change, I find it to be counter productive to make it legal in standard matches. If the goal is to build out the AFW universe and make it into something more coherent and tangible for people to work within, it should facilitate all the characters in the broadest possible way. You do this by keeping the fundamentals of what wrestling is, largely the same. For ease of players and motivations, and build onto it with everything else. Hentai being legal, for standard matches, works against something like that by forcing fundamental character behavior requirements to shift based on strictly OOC reasoning. Its one thing to plan out spots and set up the flow of a match, its another thing to have to change how they are entirely because their normal method of fighting is something that is always permitted where it being illegal gives them grounds to behave and dial things back.

Seems like the central argument here, aside from world building issues Yori touched on, is what should be deemed the exception, or the rule. Should kinky tactics be the exception, or should no-nonsense standard tactics be the exception? I’m of the opinion that standardized rules that condemn the usage of outright sexual stimulation is what makes actual Hentai matches more of a desired spectacle, the fact that it its not commonly executed adds more to the forbidden fruit appeal. Also by making it legal we essentially dilute the intrigue of the Hentai belt itself since it is a tactic now commonly employed everywhere, this would be the same issue with the hardcore belt if we made hardcore rules commonplace. If we voted for it's legality than we’d essentially make every belt in Friction partially Hentai belts than. The Tag-Team Hentai belts. The Entropy Hentai belt, and so on.

Pretty much in the same boat as Yori and KC.

My general thinking is just that since we have threads of standard matches where the rules specify "hentai is allowed," logically that should mean it normally wouldn't be allowed in standard matches otherwise.

And I like KC's specification of hentai tactics as things done with the purpose of sexually stimulating your opponent. That gives those who flirt with the line in their matches a way to do so without having to behave too out of character.