Re: We Should Talk About The Title Scene

by SleeperAgent94 Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:32 am

Alexandra wrote:

Tai is right about one thing. You HAVE to reach out more if you're interested in title runs and matches. And you know what? If someone has a belt and doesn't want to work with you or do anything with you? Fine. Move on. Find someone else with a belt or wait until someone else has the one you're interested in.

Or even better? And hear me out.

Fuck the belts.

Stop worrying about them. Stop craving them.

I know someone is probably already posting an angry FUCK YOU, but listen to me. The titles are nice end goals, but they shouldn't be your main goal. Getting a title shouldn't be the main reason you're here or the main reason you're writing and roleplaying with others on the site.

Problem is we have tried this, and for some of us it has gotten us nowhere. We have title holders who vanish for weeks on end, won't ever reply (not even a courteous "no thanks im not into that" or working with us to make a better story) I'M NOT SAYING EVERYONE DOES THIS, I"M SAYING IT HAPPENS OK?

If we have built up a characters story where a belt is a great stepping stone (im talking midcard belt) why aren't we opening up dialogue with those people? Instead we sit here until the newcomers get frustrated and then we are told to not care about them, even when we have been working just as hard on our storylines as others have been.

Here is the thing: IF I ever got a belt. I already have a plan in place to put it to good use furthering the storyline before passing it off to someone else to put them over. I am willing to work with people to craft a good story for it. Personally my want for a belt isn't one born of a "I WANT IT" mentality. It's a tool I need to further the story. I have a plan in place and while yes, plans can change, this consistent roadblock has on several occasions made me want to leave because of the sheer frustration of not being able to have a damn conversation and work with people. Everyone should know by now I am a flexible guy and can work with other stories.

by **Old_Man_Tai** Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:34 am

Winner3 wrote:So, just a quick list of amendments. And this'll probably get buried, I figure it's better to try to get these few disclaimers out there before some people come away from this thread with the wrong idea/ideas.

1) I feel like certain people are/will write this off as another set of people complaining about something because it seems out of reach for them. That is not what's intended here. I started this thread of my own free will. Not because I feel like I'm not getting an opportunity that I deserve, but because I wasn't happy with the titles here the rules for which they are/were handled, or lack thereof. This was not made to be whining/ranting/complaining thread. This was not made to say titles are an end game. This is not to assign blame, joke, blow a gasket, or do any of that stuff. Some people may have chosen to do all that. I didn't.

2) I should clarify, again, my point on "more belts". Since people seem to be echoing that phrase and shooting down the idea. I don't believe we need more belts than we already have. I believe we should decommission the ones that are inactive or reasonably inactive and replace them with others. Maybe add more then we had before if we feel there is a demand for them, which given the user-base, I feel there is. If you still disagree with this point, that's fine. I just wanted to make my point clear.

3) I don't think people failing to reaching out to any specific people is a valid claim for anyone to miss out on opportunities regarding belts or other accolades. Especially with no rules stating so.

1. I'll give you that the rules are ill defined at best, but nothing so far suggested has been exactly better, and it hasn't stopped a lot of title activity from happening with new title holders and challengers showing up all the time.

2. What belts do you feel need to be shut down? What would you replace them with?

3. Why does it ALL fall on the heads of the title holders? They've spent time preparing stories and doing matches and working things out, why is it automatically there fault if someone they've never worked with and have no idea if they want a shot or not doesn't get an opportunity? Why can't they make the effort to speak up?

I held the Tension Title Belt for a year, and nobody, NOBODY in that time period ever contacted me or asked for anything, except Lobo. Maybe if somebody had, they would have gotten what they wanted.

by ThunderFox Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:35 am

Alexandra wrote:The people who hold titles shouldn't be expected to message random people they don't know or haven't worked with and ask them if they want to do something with it.

Pretty much this. You can't put that on them. If you have interest in the belt, ask the holder if something can happen. If you don't, then don't expect to get a shot at it. If no one knows you have interest, then what do you expect?

by LtLukas Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:35 am

Alexandra wrote:So when I say you need to reach out more, I speak from experience. If you want a title shot or want to be involved with a belt, the responsibility is on your shoulders to reach out and ask. It's not on a title-holder's shoulders to reach out for you.

This. This. A thousand times this. I don't mean to victim blame, but the messaging system is a bidirectional sort of thing. I don't have any data in front of me, but I would wager that very few of you asked for a title shot directly. It seems to be as if many of us are introverts, and that shyness has extended into the white space, so to speak. It is as if you are all pretty girls at prom, waiting for some cute boy to come and pick you up. I don't mean to victim blame, nor do I intend to call anyone out specifically. Alex is a fairly amiable dude, and he had this problem. Bluemouse was far less amiable, and she had the same problem as well. Sometimes the mountain comes to Muhammad, and sometimes Muhammad must go to the mountain.

Also, another point that Lobo touched upon, is the fact that sometimes reigns are cool. I genuinely think that Alaina's run was awesome, especially because it was somewhat unconventional. When we move the belt every two matches, we ruin the allure of the belt. To me, the belt should be borderline unattainable. It should be reserved for women who work their whole lives and throw themselves against the best competition imaginable. We have women in Friction who can do literally death defying stunts. Story wise, when any Tom Dick or Harry can waltz in with their three wins over jobbers and get a shot at glory, then it does not mean anything anymore.

by Alexandra Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:39 am

LtLukas wrote:

ThunderFox wrote:

I still regret not doing more with you two. :P

by LtLukas Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:40 am

Alexandra wrote:
LtLukas wrote:
ThunderFox wrote:

I still regret not doing more with you two.

/me hugs

by **Old_Man_Tai** Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:41 am

LtLukas wrote:
Alexandra wrote:So when I say you need to reach out more, I speak from experience. If you want a title shot or want to be involved with a belt, the responsibility is on your shoulders to reach out and ask. It's not on a title-holder's shoulders to reach out for you.

This. This. A thousand times this. I don't mean to victim blame, but the messaging system is a bidirectional sort of thing. I don't have any data in front of me, but I would wager that very few of you asked for a title shot directly. It seems to be as if many of us are introverts, and that shyness has extended into the white space, so to speak. It is as if you are all pretty girls at prom, waiting for some cute boy to come and pick you up. I don't mean to victim blame, nor do I intend to call anyone out specifically. Alex is a fairly amiable dude, and he had this problem. Bluemouse was far less amiable, and she had the same problem as well. Sometimes the mountain comes to Muhammad, and sometimes Muhammad must go to the mountain.

Also, another point that Lobo touched upon, is the fact that sometimes reigns are cool. I genuinely think that Alaina's run was awesome, especially because it was somewhat unconventional. When we move the belt every two matches, we ruin the allure of the belt. To me, the belt should be borderline unattainable. It should be reserved for women who work their whole lives and throw themselves against the best competition imaginable. We have women in Friction who can do literally death defying stunts. Story wise, when any Tom Dick or Harry can waltz in with their three wins over jobbers and get a shot at glory, then it does not mean anything anymore.

I agree on both.

If you TALK to me, I might give you something.

If you sit on your hands and do nothing, I'm going to probably ignore you, and then when you complain, mock you.

as for reigns, reigns are great. Most people feel they earned the belt when they win it, why shouldn't they be allowed to enjoy their run?

by ThunderFox Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:41 am

I think we had one thread going together, but we never finished it. Mainly because I left for a year, and when I came back, I elected to not finish any threads I left hanging.

Shame we never got to do anything more Sad

by LunarWolf Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:43 am

So I skimmed through this thread a bit right now.

I mostly agree fully with what Alex is saying. Like, think of it this way. I've played a character who held the Hardcore Belt for a little over a year, and I didn't have a single person ever message me about doing anything with the belt. Not one, so like I don't really get why there is so much complaining on the title scene....I know it's kinda weird for me to talk about that, but you gotta remember. I role-played on AFW for three years without having any intention of going for a title or doing anything with titles. Three years between belts for Cecilia, or me even seeing much of the title scene.

This place becomes a lot more fun if you stop worrying about titles. When you get them, fun, cool...you can do some neato stories with it. Though it doesn't say much, it's not a reward and it shouldn't be thought of or treated as such. It's not some accomplishment. It's a factor within the story of AFW and that's about it. This is a roleplay forum, where you can write up characters to be pretty much how you want them to be an act and find people to do cool stories and have fun with. That is what this place is, it's not a place where we reward "good" writers. Titles are fun little story tools, and sure...maybe not everyone gets to play with those story tools, but does that really matter so much ?

by ThunderFox Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:45 am

Old_Man_Tai wrote:If you sit on your hands and do nothing, I'm going to probably ignore you, and then when you complain, mock you.

No. No no no no. THAT is the kind of thing that pushes people away. If someone complains, then just ignore it. But mocking someone for having a complaint is NOT the way to go about it, and it's just a straight up asshole move.

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