Search
Latest topics
» Zebra Woman vs KIRA (Debut) - Just Businessby CrashTestDumbass Today at 5:51 pm
» Yori Takibi vs. Birbie Becky - The Blazing Winds Will Rage!
by ARStudios2000 Today at 4:42 pm
» SRW: Velvela vs Croo-El! The Wolf and the Croc!
by SimplyMoon Today at 2:54 pm
» Usada Pekora vs Ange Ma'rine - Rabbits and Pirates
by RJD Today at 1:52 am
» Monica Jackson Vs Hiromi Seiko: iron man match!
by RJD Today at 1:44 am
Who is online?
In total there are 654 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 654 Guests :: 1 BotNone
Most users ever online was 666 on Thu Nov 07, 2024 6:51 pm
Champions & #1 contenders
Looking for my first match!
Wed Oct 16, 2024 8:32 pm by CaptainL
Hey there! Just got my first profile approved, and I'm ready to get started at AFW. Hit me up on Discord or DMs if you want to discuss things!
Comments: 0
Match request
Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:09 am by Nurin
Hai saya Nurin and I wish to have my first match here you can pick any of my girls (if you pick one of the hellhounds it will either be handicap or tag) for a match
https://www.afwrpg.com/t23085-nurin-s-girls#582172
https://www.afwrpg.com/t23085-nurin-s-girls#582172
Comments: 0
Femdom matches with smothers in mixed matches
Mon Jun 24, 2024 2:01 am by jdo_sss
If anyone has any female characters that needs more wins and uses moves like stinkface, breast smother etc let me know message me on discord thanks
NitroVitro
NitroVitro
Comments: 0
Western Philosophy
2 posters
Anime Female Wrestling :: Shows :: Friction :: Backstage
Page 2 of 3
Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Re: Western Philosophy
Clyde instantly stopped eating. The Twins listened intently at the mention of Heather, Cecilia and that infamous tag match. For the first time, they were hearing Kamikaze's side of the story. Bonnie knew how her old friends could be and Clyde knew how bad busted ribs felt.
What was hearbreaking was Taylor's details of the aftermath, she was usually a pillar of strength, for the Twins to be shown that their new friend of sorts had fell into a deep pit due to a match with someone they had once cared about was gut wrenching.
They lost contact with Cecilia and Heather was... Not to be mentioned much. The Twins eventually shared a wounded look at hearing Taylor's question before she explained to them the Heather situation and that Bonnie was more or less in the exact same shoes.
"Eugh." Bonnie said all of a sudden, lifting her head with a disgusted look before looking at Clyde. "I don't wanna be like yer Ex!" She complained.
"Which one?" Clyde snarked, thinking back to what Heather had done to him and the possibility they were doing somehting that the Purple clad woman would do.
But it was ALL The Twins needed to hear. And it was bittersweet note for Bonnie who crossed her arms and breathed deeply.
"...Yeah... I guess I should just stay the hell away... Dunno if we seen the last of her though. " It was a good way to avoid Dinah most likely.
What was hearbreaking was Taylor's details of the aftermath, she was usually a pillar of strength, for the Twins to be shown that their new friend of sorts had fell into a deep pit due to a match with someone they had once cared about was gut wrenching.
They lost contact with Cecilia and Heather was... Not to be mentioned much. The Twins eventually shared a wounded look at hearing Taylor's question before she explained to them the Heather situation and that Bonnie was more or less in the exact same shoes.
"Eugh." Bonnie said all of a sudden, lifting her head with a disgusted look before looking at Clyde. "I don't wanna be like yer Ex!" She complained.
"Which one?" Clyde snarked, thinking back to what Heather had done to him and the possibility they were doing somehting that the Purple clad woman would do.
But it was ALL The Twins needed to hear. And it was bittersweet note for Bonnie who crossed her arms and breathed deeply.
"...Yeah... I guess I should just stay the hell away... Dunno if we seen the last of her though. " It was a good way to avoid Dinah most likely.
_________________
Friction: Kelly Conway Zipporah Amos Boudreaux "THE Cyclops" Bonnie Gastin Andrea Umlaut White Mamba Trixie Lasek
Tension: Clyde Gastin Dulsa Youkai Kid
Lobo- Posts : 9798
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 32
Re: Western Philosophy
Taylor shrugged. "Might be a good idea."
She ate a piece of beef and a slice of sweet potato in silence, and then shook her head. "Man, like... I don't know this girl at all, but like... My heart goes out to her, ya know? I mean, she's so young, and she's definitely not from here, and Friction will chew out grown, experienced women, let alone a girl like her. Just imagine how she must feel right now..." She made a face while she thought, and then shook her head again. "I hope she's got someone who can help her get through whatever she's going through. She probably shouldn't be in wrestling at all, but people said that about me when I was training, so who knows, right?"
She ate a piece of beef and a slice of sweet potato in silence, and then shook her head. "Man, like... I don't know this girl at all, but like... My heart goes out to her, ya know? I mean, she's so young, and she's definitely not from here, and Friction will chew out grown, experienced women, let alone a girl like her. Just imagine how she must feel right now..." She made a face while she thought, and then shook her head again. "I hope she's got someone who can help her get through whatever she's going through. She probably shouldn't be in wrestling at all, but people said that about me when I was training, so who knows, right?"
Bluemouse- Posts : 11144
Join date : 2010-10-13
Re: Western Philosophy
"Eugh..." The Twins groaned hard. Imagine how she felt, Taylor said. They did and it made them feel worse, especially Bonnie.
"Oh she's got someone 'ta help her. Little Tatyina and her 6 foot Auntie." Clyde said, recalling the punch that left a clear bruise on his face and the beating Duffy took.
"She ain't all innocent here. When she came in the lounge to taze Bonnie, I stopped her before her Aunt hit me. Emily then told her Aunt WE attacked her first and tried to taze her." Clyde remarked and shrugged.
"She ain't no saint, neither are we. But she's scared." Bonnie said with remorse.
"We ain't tryin' ta fight Emily. We want Allison and Jocelyn. Well I do anyway." Clyde remarked, feeling bitter at his uselessness.
"Oh she's got someone 'ta help her. Little Tatyina and her 6 foot Auntie." Clyde said, recalling the punch that left a clear bruise on his face and the beating Duffy took.
"She ain't all innocent here. When she came in the lounge to taze Bonnie, I stopped her before her Aunt hit me. Emily then told her Aunt WE attacked her first and tried to taze her." Clyde remarked and shrugged.
"She ain't no saint, neither are we. But she's scared." Bonnie said with remorse.
"We ain't tryin' ta fight Emily. We want Allison and Jocelyn. Well I do anyway." Clyde remarked, feeling bitter at his uselessness.
_________________
Friction: Kelly Conway Zipporah Amos Boudreaux "THE Cyclops" Bonnie Gastin Andrea Umlaut White Mamba Trixie Lasek
Tension: Clyde Gastin Dulsa Youkai Kid
Lobo- Posts : 9798
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 32
Re: Western Philosophy
Little by little, Taylor's expression hardened while the twins spoke until she was grim-faced and serious. "Okay..." She said slowly, and forgot about the food for the moment to face Clyde and Bonnie together.
"You motherfuckers better leave this girl the fuck alone, understand?" She said. As her New York accent came out, she also began using her hands more. "She's a kid. Get it? Kids do bad shit, but you don't just turn around and fuck up their lives for it. I don't know either of those other people, but I hope she has someone to help her through shit, and it sure as shit isn't you guys."
She drew a breath. She knew by experience that getting confrontational with the Gastins only led to them picking fights and hyperventilating, but whatever. It was her house, she could throw them out if she needed to.
"And why the fuck are you still going on about how much you want to fight these two girls? What the fuck is wrong with you? You two are supposed to be fucking professionals, god, fucking, dammit. Like... I beat King's ass when he was trying to kill Johnny, but it's not like I sit outside his house with a shotgun. Black Dragon gave me the longest-lasting injury I've ever had, and know what I did? I moved on with my life.
"Fuckin' Gatt beat my ass and fucked with me when I was so brand fuckin' new. I was a kid then, and you didn't see me going around begging her to fight me. And what the fuck got into you?" She asked Bonnie. "What the hell were you wearing?"
"You motherfuckers better leave this girl the fuck alone, understand?" She said. As her New York accent came out, she also began using her hands more. "She's a kid. Get it? Kids do bad shit, but you don't just turn around and fuck up their lives for it. I don't know either of those other people, but I hope she has someone to help her through shit, and it sure as shit isn't you guys."
She drew a breath. She knew by experience that getting confrontational with the Gastins only led to them picking fights and hyperventilating, but whatever. It was her house, she could throw them out if she needed to.
"And why the fuck are you still going on about how much you want to fight these two girls? What the fuck is wrong with you? You two are supposed to be fucking professionals, god, fucking, dammit. Like... I beat King's ass when he was trying to kill Johnny, but it's not like I sit outside his house with a shotgun. Black Dragon gave me the longest-lasting injury I've ever had, and know what I did? I moved on with my life.
"Fuckin' Gatt beat my ass and fucked with me when I was so brand fuckin' new. I was a kid then, and you didn't see me going around begging her to fight me. And what the fuck got into you?" She asked Bonnie. "What the hell were you wearing?"
Bluemouse- Posts : 11144
Join date : 2010-10-13
Re: Western Philosophy
Bonnie and Clyde looked at eachother in confusion as Taylor snapped at them. "Who the fuck said we were GONNA mess with her?" Clyde argued before Taylor went off on them, making the Twins honestly feel like a bunch of obsessed assholes... And yet... They looked at Taylor like she was the crazy the one. What the fuck was wrong with them? Bonnie lowered her head and Clyde just frowned.
"We're not MLK..." Bonnie muttered managing to tell a joke, Allison told her she was the real bad guy and clearly she was right, and while Sarah Gatt was a sore subject, Taylor talking about the fuck got into Bonnie and what she wore, made the girl avert her gaze from Taylor. She wanted to leave now.
"Hey Hey! I'm the one who said I wanted 'ta fight! I spoke for me. And thats great you turned away and shit but... The shit she's done to us. It wasn't just 1 stupid thing, it was a lot of things, alright!? " Clyde thought about Mercy and paused.
"You ain't think We moved on from bad shit!? I got jumped by Dragon's Posse, where were yall?! I had Dark Angel beat me after our match, I let it go and cheered Cassie instead! I HAD Gatt's people beat me near Death and I let other people handle it! Don't compare US to YOU! Or all those people to ALLISON and the horrible things she's done! We never sent someone to attack someone in their own fuckin' home to attack an already injured limb!"
"THAT MATCH was supposed ta' squash it but then she went assaulted Mercy! Brutralized my sister then tried to collar her!" Clyde exclaimed. "Less you think we just obsessed crazy stalkers then maybe we oughta go... "
"We're not MLK..." Bonnie muttered managing to tell a joke, Allison told her she was the real bad guy and clearly she was right, and while Sarah Gatt was a sore subject, Taylor talking about the fuck got into Bonnie and what she wore, made the girl avert her gaze from Taylor. She wanted to leave now.
"Hey Hey! I'm the one who said I wanted 'ta fight! I spoke for me. And thats great you turned away and shit but... The shit she's done to us. It wasn't just 1 stupid thing, it was a lot of things, alright!? " Clyde thought about Mercy and paused.
"You ain't think We moved on from bad shit!? I got jumped by Dragon's Posse, where were yall?! I had Dark Angel beat me after our match, I let it go and cheered Cassie instead! I HAD Gatt's people beat me near Death and I let other people handle it! Don't compare US to YOU! Or all those people to ALLISON and the horrible things she's done! We never sent someone to attack someone in their own fuckin' home to attack an already injured limb!"
"THAT MATCH was supposed ta' squash it but then she went assaulted Mercy! Brutralized my sister then tried to collar her!" Clyde exclaimed. "Less you think we just obsessed crazy stalkers then maybe we oughta go... "
_________________
Friction: Kelly Conway Zipporah Amos Boudreaux "THE Cyclops" Bonnie Gastin Andrea Umlaut White Mamba Trixie Lasek
Tension: Clyde Gastin Dulsa Youkai Kid
Lobo- Posts : 9798
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 32
Re: Western Philosophy
Taylor bristled at the remark about Dragon, and fumed when Clyde brought Cassie's name into it. She unconsciously lowered her chin and clenched her fists.
"You ain't think? What the fuck language are you speaking, you squeaky motherfucker. Get a fucking grip. Where were we? I'm sorry, were we supposed to be? WE DON'T LIVE IN KYOTO YOU STUPID BITCH!"
Maybe she needed to take a step back and breathe. This probably wasn't the right thing to do.
She lowered her voice, but it was no less incendiary.
"You cheered Cassie instead, huh? As opposed to what? Driving to another city to try to beat up a girl? What a fucking life you must have. How many women do you have in your revenge pile? And ALL OF US cheered for Cassie, and ALL OF US stepped aside, because that was ALL WE COULD FUCKING DO!" She shouted aggressively. "You think Friction matches only happen with your permission? You think that makes you something? If I could've done ANYTHING, I fucking WOULD'VE. I went to Talia's house and kicked the fucking shit out of her, I had her down on the ground, and I... That wasn't the plan, but... I could've killed her. I would've. I would've done anything."
She stopped. She was breathing hard. She shook her head and took a step away, and waved a hand at Clyde. "Whatever, Bonnie, get this guy under control."
"You ain't think? What the fuck language are you speaking, you squeaky motherfucker. Get a fucking grip. Where were we? I'm sorry, were we supposed to be? WE DON'T LIVE IN KYOTO YOU STUPID BITCH!"
Maybe she needed to take a step back and breathe. This probably wasn't the right thing to do.
She lowered her voice, but it was no less incendiary.
"You cheered Cassie instead, huh? As opposed to what? Driving to another city to try to beat up a girl? What a fucking life you must have. How many women do you have in your revenge pile? And ALL OF US cheered for Cassie, and ALL OF US stepped aside, because that was ALL WE COULD FUCKING DO!" She shouted aggressively. "You think Friction matches only happen with your permission? You think that makes you something? If I could've done ANYTHING, I fucking WOULD'VE. I went to Talia's house and kicked the fucking shit out of her, I had her down on the ground, and I... That wasn't the plan, but... I could've killed her. I would've. I would've done anything."
She stopped. She was breathing hard. She shook her head and took a step away, and waved a hand at Clyde. "Whatever, Bonnie, get this guy under control."
Bluemouse- Posts : 11144
Join date : 2010-10-13
Re: Western Philosophy
The Twins gave Taylor a glare as their speech was mocked by a New Yorker of all things. But being called a stupid bitch was another ball game. Clyde was surprised and quickly fired up while Bonnie was visibly angered. The were forced to let the champion go off. Bonnie didn't like Taylor bagging on her brother, it had cured her downtrodden self and made her want to get defensive real quick.
Clyde didnt like the way Taylor was painting him and Bonnie out to be while the high and mighty champ talked down on them. Her last comment like the grinding of a boot on their skin.
"Yer the one outta control." The Twins said together.
"My opponents are women cuz I work in a mixed league! I don't do anything different than what Johnny do. The only one who's gone 'ta somebody's house to attack them Is you! I challenged the people who TORTURED my sister, to fight in The Ring cuz I ain't a fuckin thug!" Clyde exclaimed in deep frustration.
"Yer being a dick." He said plainly. "I cheer for Bonnie on the side cuz THATS ALL I CAN DO! " He shouted, knowing he was useless.
"You're sucha saint unlike us Bullies, right? Calling me 'ta remind us we did something terrible before saying its cause you care. Where was the Damn phone call when those masked fucks that hated yall beat down on me!? You only call 'ta say we're assholes but you CARE!?!?" Clyde shook his head.
"So here Bonnie is, coming for Your help but all you wanna do is dog us now!? GOD! DAMN! Make up yer mind!!"
Clyde didnt like the way Taylor was painting him and Bonnie out to be while the high and mighty champ talked down on them. Her last comment like the grinding of a boot on their skin.
"Yer the one outta control." The Twins said together.
"My opponents are women cuz I work in a mixed league! I don't do anything different than what Johnny do. The only one who's gone 'ta somebody's house to attack them Is you! I challenged the people who TORTURED my sister, to fight in The Ring cuz I ain't a fuckin thug!" Clyde exclaimed in deep frustration.
"Yer being a dick." He said plainly. "I cheer for Bonnie on the side cuz THATS ALL I CAN DO! " He shouted, knowing he was useless.
"You're sucha saint unlike us Bullies, right? Calling me 'ta remind us we did something terrible before saying its cause you care. Where was the Damn phone call when those masked fucks that hated yall beat down on me!? You only call 'ta say we're assholes but you CARE!?!?" Clyde shook his head.
"So here Bonnie is, coming for Your help but all you wanna do is dog us now!? GOD! DAMN! Make up yer mind!!"
_________________
Friction: Kelly Conway Zipporah Amos Boudreaux "THE Cyclops" Bonnie Gastin Andrea Umlaut White Mamba Trixie Lasek
Tension: Clyde Gastin Dulsa Youkai Kid
Lobo- Posts : 9798
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 32
Re: Western Philosophy
"Oh, fuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuuuu," Taylor rolled her eyes. "What, you wanted me to call you to say 'I noticed you got beat up. There, there.' Go fuck yourself."
She shook her head and started to walk away toward the living room, but stopped. "And where the fuck do you get off accusing me of... whatever the fuck you're accusing me of? What the fuck do you mean where were y'all? People get jumped where we work. Where were you when Gatt triple teamed me, knocked me out, stripped me, and hung me. Where were you when anything happened to anyone? How the fuck is it fair for you to come in here acting like I abandoned you or some shit, and then act like a goddamn hero because you let Cassie do her job. FUCK you for even saying her name."
She huffed and looked at Bonnie, and gestured at her with her hand. "Do you have anything to say? Like, by yourself?"
She shook her head and started to walk away toward the living room, but stopped. "And where the fuck do you get off accusing me of... whatever the fuck you're accusing me of? What the fuck do you mean where were y'all? People get jumped where we work. Where were you when Gatt triple teamed me, knocked me out, stripped me, and hung me. Where were you when anything happened to anyone? How the fuck is it fair for you to come in here acting like I abandoned you or some shit, and then act like a goddamn hero because you let Cassie do her job. FUCK you for even saying her name."
She huffed and looked at Bonnie, and gestured at her with her hand. "Do you have anything to say? Like, by yourself?"
Bluemouse- Posts : 11144
Join date : 2010-10-13
Re: Western Philosophy
"No. I wasn't waiting for nobody. Just think its funny that you only showed interest when we fucked up. Not when someone was fucking us up." He knew Taylor never liked him and while rejecting Melissa's title offer was the right thing to do. Clyde wondered if sabotaging his career for people who didn't give a shit about him, was worth it.
"I was there for for Johnny when King had him and Ninja-Chick were outnumbered." He growled, it probably wouldn't mean two shits to her. "And... You're right I wasn't there for you with Gatt. I didn't know you... But... FUCK, man! I wouldn't let that shit happen 'ta anyone, I had to endure it too!" Clyde argued, while shaking his head, this was pointless and he was ready to leave but the stuff she was putting in his mouth regarding Cassie got him going, he scowled as his brow twitched, fists shaking.
"The hell is your problem!? " He cried from over the table. "Where the fuck did I even say I LET Cassie do anything!? That Dark Angel bitch was in Tension! She fought Me and Johnny and then went over to Friction, ASKING FOR YOU! And got Cassie instead! Well guess What Ms. High and Mighty, I don't CONTROL shit in Friction! I didn't ALLOW Cassie Elliot to do ANYTHING! She beat a bitch that I couldn't even beat! But you know everything, right!? Get the hell off my back!" Clyde spat, knowing they should just leave, he could cut ties with The Higurashi family once the fight with King was over. He knew this was going to go sour.
Bonnie had been standing there with her arms crossed and shot Taylor a glare as she was addressed. "Ya like making fun of the way we talk while wearing Dixie Clemets hat?" Bonnie asked with a ton of attitude in her voice. Her guilt induced meekness gone.
"I don't appreciate the way you talk down to my brother. He's not stupid. But we're prolly just pieces of shit to you, right? " Bonnie scoffed.
"Ya know we hate Allison and wanna kick her ass. But I didn't walk into her spa and just assault her. I want to hurt her bad, as much as I can... But I never... Wanted to kill her." Bonnie said aloud to herself. "I dunno if you're the best person for advice on anything anymore. You're flipping out and insulting us for no real damn reason and seem proud of what you did to Dark Angel at her place. " Bonnie was starting to wonder if Cecilia and Heather right. No. They were all crazy, Everyone in AFW was confrontational as hell. Them included.
"
"I was there for for Johnny when King had him and Ninja-Chick were outnumbered." He growled, it probably wouldn't mean two shits to her. "And... You're right I wasn't there for you with Gatt. I didn't know you... But... FUCK, man! I wouldn't let that shit happen 'ta anyone, I had to endure it too!" Clyde argued, while shaking his head, this was pointless and he was ready to leave but the stuff she was putting in his mouth regarding Cassie got him going, he scowled as his brow twitched, fists shaking.
"The hell is your problem!? " He cried from over the table. "Where the fuck did I even say I LET Cassie do anything!? That Dark Angel bitch was in Tension! She fought Me and Johnny and then went over to Friction, ASKING FOR YOU! And got Cassie instead! Well guess What Ms. High and Mighty, I don't CONTROL shit in Friction! I didn't ALLOW Cassie Elliot to do ANYTHING! She beat a bitch that I couldn't even beat! But you know everything, right!? Get the hell off my back!" Clyde spat, knowing they should just leave, he could cut ties with The Higurashi family once the fight with King was over. He knew this was going to go sour.
Bonnie had been standing there with her arms crossed and shot Taylor a glare as she was addressed. "Ya like making fun of the way we talk while wearing Dixie Clemets hat?" Bonnie asked with a ton of attitude in her voice. Her guilt induced meekness gone.
"I don't appreciate the way you talk down to my brother. He's not stupid. But we're prolly just pieces of shit to you, right? " Bonnie scoffed.
"Ya know we hate Allison and wanna kick her ass. But I didn't walk into her spa and just assault her. I want to hurt her bad, as much as I can... But I never... Wanted to kill her." Bonnie said aloud to herself. "I dunno if you're the best person for advice on anything anymore. You're flipping out and insulting us for no real damn reason and seem proud of what you did to Dark Angel at her place. " Bonnie was starting to wonder if Cecilia and Heather right. No. They were all crazy, Everyone in AFW was confrontational as hell. Them included.
"
_________________
Friction: Kelly Conway Zipporah Amos Boudreaux "THE Cyclops" Bonnie Gastin Andrea Umlaut White Mamba Trixie Lasek
Tension: Clyde Gastin Dulsa Youkai Kid
Lobo- Posts : 9798
Join date : 2009-08-19
Age : 32
Re: Western Philosophy
"Don't bring Dixie into this..." Taylor muttered under her breath. There was no way they could compare themselves to Dixie Clemets.
The last remark was so ridiculously unfair that Taylor was physically choked and couldn't speak. She stood still and closed her eyes while she drew a breath, and went through the same old ritual. Ten... nine... eight...
"If you came here..." She said quietly, struggling to keep her temper under control. "For advice on how to hurt someone as badly as possible, you came to the wrong place. If I see you hurting this chick bad, and as much as you can, outside of a fair match, I'll sure as shit take the time out of my day to straighten you out, but I think I'm done talking to you people. Do you want train fare?"
Her stomach was too knotted up to eat, and so she went about putting lids on the containers of food and stuffing them back in the fridge.
The last remark was so ridiculously unfair that Taylor was physically choked and couldn't speak. She stood still and closed her eyes while she drew a breath, and went through the same old ritual. Ten... nine... eight...
"If you came here..." She said quietly, struggling to keep her temper under control. "For advice on how to hurt someone as badly as possible, you came to the wrong place. If I see you hurting this chick bad, and as much as you can, outside of a fair match, I'll sure as shit take the time out of my day to straighten you out, but I think I'm done talking to you people. Do you want train fare?"
Her stomach was too knotted up to eat, and so she went about putting lids on the containers of food and stuffing them back in the fridge.
Bluemouse- Posts : 11144
Join date : 2010-10-13
Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics
» Daisy Cry - Western Striker
» Daisy Cry - Western Striker
» Johnny Laurence vs Krystyna Afineevsky: Eastern Girls and Western Boys.
» Daisy Cry - Western Striker
» Johnny Laurence vs Krystyna Afineevsky: Eastern Girls and Western Boys.
Anime Female Wrestling :: Shows :: Friction :: Backstage
Page 2 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum